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EGR valve discussion

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burfadel
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Postby burfadel » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:55 pm

Definitely! For those that are interested in what happened...

I'm still annoyed that my car decided to break down right before the last one. At the time I sent a message via the chatbox hoping there was a local SA ClubCJ member that could come and help me out hoping it was something simple, but that didn't work!

It attracted some interest at the time by those who heard it, I lost track of who was who with a few phonecalls! I had the RAA person who towed it from Windy Point to Ultra Tune, the people at Ultra Tune, and the person who towed it from Ultra Tune to the Mitsubishi place all curious because of the lumpy rotary/V8 sound it was making. It actually sounded pretty awesome in a bad way.

Only reason why I took it to Ultra Tune was hoping it was something simple so I could make the tune, since it was the Friday night right before that it broke down. Ultra Tune couldn't find the problem (no charge), got it towed to Mitsubishi on the Monday and it took until Friday afternoon to get it.

The interesting thing is that the RAA nor Ultra Tune could read any fault codes, and yet Mitsubishi had a list of fault codes to work through; since one thing was off it must have thrown every engine running code. I rang them up right before closing on Thursday and they still hadn't found the problem at Mitsubishi. The guy I spoke to who was older so most likely an old school mechanic said he'll look at it on Friday. I think he must have gone straight to the problem because they got the new part and fitted it that day.

The issue was with the EGR valve, from which I can find through a google search can be a fickle thing in whether they last or you have issues. I searched for it on a Lancer 4B11 and this is what I found:
http://workshop-manuals.com/mitsubishi/ ... 2.0l_(4b11)/powertrain_management/emission_control_systems/exhaust_gas_recirculation/egr_valve/component_information/service_and_repair/procedures/page_2893/
Item 2. Seems you need to copy and paste the above link. Without manually adding the url tags only half of it works as the link, up to the (4b11), and with the url tags the post ends up showing as blank.

It only got stuck open after I was in a high vacuum state of operation. Coming down Kalyra Rd towards Windy Point I put the car into manual mode like I normally do down there and let the engine help slow the car instead of riding the brakes.
I might add a pic of my car once I style the exterior a bit :).

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SAM-24A
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Postby SAM-24A » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:07 am

This is the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) Valve.
It's located under the Throttle Body ..... Item Number 2 on the pic.

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merlin
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Postby merlin » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:08 pm

Nasty looking piece of excess weight and complication, especially when it fails.

Sometime this year I will be looking for a test bunny so I can find and totally disable the EGR function. I am sure it can be done and I know more or less where the byte that will need to set to zero resides. Some testing required.

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Postby burfadel » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:25 pm

Is the EGR electronically controlled? Supposedly disabling it might be an issue with emissions, and since it supposedly cools the exhaust valves disabling it might cause higher wear. Notice I said supposedly, since it may or may not be the case, and may or may not be the case with the Lancer engines. Despite Wikipedia being a very bad source of information, it does suggest that some engines no longer requires it.


According to Wikipedia (again, bad source of information), the EGR can:
  • reduce throttling losses: The addition of inert exhaust gas into the intake system means that for a given power output, the throttle plate must be opened further, resulting in increased inlet manifold pressure and reduced throttling losses.
  • reduce heat rejection: Lowered peak combustion temperatures not only reduces NOx formation, it also reduces the loss of thermal energy to combustion chamber surfaces, leaving more available for conversion to mechanical work during the expansion stroke.
  • reduced chemical dissociation: The lower peak temperatures result in more of the released energy remaining as sensible energy near TDC (Top Dead-Center), rather than being bound up (early in the expansion stroke) in the dissociation of combustion products. This effect is minor compared to the first two.


If that is the case, and it is electronically controlled, maybe the effect of the EGR valve can be tuned for the best results? I'm pretty sure disabling it is technically illegal, and probably voids new car warranty...

I'm guessing since the Lancer's run rich it probably didn't help with carbon buildup causing mine to become stuck.
I might add a pic of my car once I style the exterior a bit :).

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Postby merlin » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:34 pm

I know for a fact it is not fitted to all Lancers worldwide
and
hot inert gas addition to the intake mix increases the likelihood of detonation
and
raises cylinder temps
and
reduces your fuel efficiency
and
reduces the power output.

Thats why tuners have been at war with the EGR valve for many many decades. LOL I think the first one I removed was in 1973.

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Postby aspir3 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:55 pm

Obviously it would run better without the erg valve. We go to such efforts to fit cold air intakes and then have a factory valve that allows in hot air, doesn't make sense.
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Postby sleeper » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:07 pm

would it be for cold climate warm up, therefore superfluous for us?
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burfadel
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Postby burfadel » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:20 pm

aspir3 wrote:Obviously it would run better without the erg valve. We go to such efforts to fit cold air intakes and then have a factory valve that allows in hot air, doesnt make sense.


It's just hot air, it's exhaust. Electronically limiting it would be safer warranty and legality wise if that is at all possible, assuming of course.
I might add a pic of my car once I style the exterior a bit :).

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burfadel
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Postby burfadel » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:20 pm

aspir3 wrote:Obviously it would run better without the erg valve. We go to such efforts to fit cold air intakes and then have a factory valve that allows in hot air, doesnt make sense.


It's just hot air, it's exhaust. Electronically limiting it would be safer warranty and legality wise if that is at all possible, assuming of course.
I might add a pic of my car once I style the exterior a bit :).

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aspir3
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Postby aspir3 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:33 pm

I'm sorry but the last time I checked the exhaust was hot air?
What would it affect with warranty?
The only affect would be your emissions. Leaving the erg valve in place and turning it off would be almost impossible for authorities to check unless we published it.
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Nice work Skip' now where the bloody hell is Sunny?



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SAM-24A
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Postby SAM-24A » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:43 pm

Our NA Lancers have an EGR Valve. I checked mine, it's just under the Throttle Valve.
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aspir3
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Postby aspir3 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:46 pm

Where does it get the air from? It doesn't connect to my exhaust.
I never checked that I had one, I just assumed I didn't because nothing connects to exhaust
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tstorm1986
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Postby tstorm1986 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:03 pm

I have removed the egr and fitted a breather on every carby engine I have ever modified. It's solely for emission, but screwing with these systems is an ease out for Mitsubishi if anything goes wrong. I'm am surprised though that other countries aren't running the same system.

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burfadel
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Postby burfadel » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:15 pm

tstorm1986 wrote:I have removed the egr and fitted a breather on every carby engine I have ever modified. Its solely for emission, but screwing with these systems is an ease out for Mitsubishi if anything goes wrong. Im am surprised though that other countries arent running the same system.


Yeah it's the out by Mitsubishi that would be an issue. If it could be electronically limited but still functional, even if at a third or quarter of normal, then it would probably be overlooked by them if you need warranty on something else.

Maybe the NZ Lancers don't have this, they are different. First of all, they have 115 KW on the 4B11 as standard, although their website does claim it has variable lift on the inlet and exhaust valves which I didn't think the 4B11 has. So we're probably jibbed there, the variable lift I guess would provide a much better torque curve. Llikewise we only have a 5 yr/100,000 km warranty now, whereas they still have the 5 yr/130,000 km normal warranty and 10 yr/160,000 drivetrain (engine, transmission etc) warranty.
I might add a pic of my car once I style the exterior a bit :).

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Postby merlin » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:04 am

The exhaust gas for EGR function is generally a small port off one of the exhaust chamber, crosses thru the head and emerges on the intake side where it is run to the valve and then into the intake manifold plenum.

I hate these things, they are the reason your intake looks like it has had crap run through it for years. Which is exactly what has been happening.

I call it the turd valve. What bastard would deliberately install a valve that fed dunny water back into your drinking water, I ask.
Last edited by merlin on Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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