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EGR valve discussion

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sarusa
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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby sarusa » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:53 pm

Suspect my EGR valve plus ? was played around with at last service. Went in running smooth as silk came out running rough and noisier injectors. Car from cold start and warm up fine but noisy injectors, take it for a run still goes OK, back to idle, rough and noisy

After a couple hundred or so ks idles smooth! Indicative of CPU taking time to correct and adjust to change. if that brought up a error code ,
it could have been deleted. :? Furthermore gauge which shows fuel usage per 100k went berserk and corrected itself at the same time.

So Question? what sort of meter do I need to connect to myOBD2 to check and if needs be corrected.


OR someone around the Greensborough area of Melb0urne that can help.

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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby burfadel » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:42 am

The EGR stuck open shouldn't make the injectors noisy, or at least it didn't for me. When the car started at idle it actually sounded really cool, sort of a cross between an oldschool big block V8 and a rotary. I had a different exhaust then though. The engine basically took no load, it would stall. Maybe they faffed around and shorted the electronics or something? A reset will mean the car has to readjust, but I'm sure it wouldn't be like you experienced.
I might add a pic of my car once I style the exterior a bit :).

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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby Quismiff » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:19 pm

burfadel wrote:When my EGR valve got stuck open pretty much nobody knew what it was, even Mitsubishi took a week finding the issue. The young mechanics were relying on the fault codes, which basically all got triggered. It was right before Christmas, so after pestering them the head guy he said he'll look at it and it was fixed later that day. Then relaying the story on here it appeared that nobody was aware they had them either. It's possible that on some cars they are stuck shut, which you wouldn't be aware. There are variations of the engine. New Zealand according to their website have variable lift, which we don't have. I believe it gives a flatter torque curve and better emissions. Would be interesting whether they have EGR valves. It also means the must have a different cylinder head?

Quismiff wrote:I'll keep an eye out for a 2.4 Lancer when I am back home at the end of the month. (yes I'm a Kiwi :twisted: )

what is your VIN number burfadel? it would be interesting to look at it on partsouq and see if there is a part listing for it in the EPC for the EGR.


Well all the lancers I saw and got regos for were 2.0 GSR, SX, ES, or Galant Fortis (sports back lancer, import I'd say)

and looking at the 4B1 engines they are all MIVEC unless I misinterpreted variable lift?

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sarusa
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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby sarusa » Fri May 04, 2018 4:53 pm

Quismiff wrote:
sarusa wrote:
burfadel wrote:I'm happy to be a test bunny as well! Was it ever worked out which Lancers actually have EGR valves?

I know mine has! :(


Looking at the EPC for my MY08 I have a solenoid that it describes as being for the EGR system, but the hose(s) that come off it go to the Evap canister and the brake booster. there is no part number for the EGR valve in the schematic, or anywhere in the EPC, did I luck out?

Image
Red Dots are the solenoid and coresponding part number.
12400 looks

12400 looks like a EGR valve. :?

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Quismiff
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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby Quismiff » Fri May 04, 2018 7:53 pm

sarusa wrote: 12400 looks

12400 looks like a EGR valve. :?

Yes it is, but no blue circle means it isn't fitted to the car :wink:
2007 MY08 VR-X (cj-red)

I'm an eccentric smart-arse whose sarcasm has him perpetually in the s#@!.

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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby sarusa » Sat May 05, 2018 10:00 am

does anyone know which of the CJ's haven't got an EGR system?

Also From when did the 2ltr engine start getting the clamshell exhaust manifold.
If you want to check yours,. the clamshell has only 3 bolts holding the heat shied, whereas the other has 4 bolts
Simple to check and report would be appreciated with year your car was made ieMY12 MY08 or whatever..

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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby sarusa » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:04 pm

History of the EGR valve. Correct me if I go off course. Originally most if not all EGR valves were vacuum operated.
Not sure but presume amount of flow would have been controlled by just a spring attached to a valve being actuated by
the intake air vacuum applied to a diaphragm. Primitive but it apparently must have worked.

Now however I think just about all of them are electronically controlled. Starting from the ECU, information is sent to a sensor,
varying the voltage to a solenoid attached to or incorporating and actuating the EGR valve. The EGR valve now though a
misnomer now being refered to as EGR solenoid. Misnomer! According to Dictionary. Solenoid:- cylindrical coil of wire that acts
like a magnet when an electrical current passes through it, used as circuit breakers, mechanical sorting devices, etc:
So needs an attached valve to be effective. EGR solenoid valve. Had an argument about this, So!!!???

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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby Quismiff » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:58 pm

I can go into detail with this tomorrow, but yes a solenoid is a magnet operated unit that can be used to control various on/off functions. A solenoid valve is exactly that, a valve that is solenoid operated, whether for air or fluid. The early ones were a diaphragm valve and as electronics and sensors became more accurate than coils and bi-metal springs the solenoid valve took its place. Also favoured for the instant effect of their operation.
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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby sarusa » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:05 am

Quismiff wrote:I can go into detail with this tomorrow, but yes a solenoid is a magnet operated unit that can be used to control various on/off functions. A solenoid valve is exactly that, a valve that is solenoid operated, whether for air or fluid. The early ones were a diaphragm valve and as electronics and sensors became more accurate than coils and bi-metal springs the solenoid valve took its place. Also favoured for the instant effect of their operation.


Exactly! My only point is that a solenoid on its own other then becoming a magnet and therefore being able to be used for various purposes, is not a valve but as in the case of the vacuum is used to actuate the valve.

So referring to the EGR solenoid actuated valve does not make it an EGR solenoid as in an EGR valve operated by a vacuum
would look stupid being refered to as a EGR vacuum!!!!!!

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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby Quismiff » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:35 am

I believe they use the term EGR Valve is loosly to describe the valve as it has always been, the solenoid part as you say is only the part that opens and closes the valve. even the early egr valves the part that opened the valve is just a mechanical solenoid.
Image
A very simple image of the EGR system. the air being re introduced after the air mass sensor surely must wreck havoc with the maps.
A good video here that explains it, if you can stand the voice :|
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I'm an eccentric smart-arse whose sarcasm has him perpetually in the s#@!.

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Skrallex
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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby Skrallex » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:42 pm

A solenoid is a bit like a relay, except that solenoids are used for mechanical actuation - controlling a valve, or opening the locking pin on a door, etc. while relays obviously act as an electrical switch.

Like all valves, EGR valves need a method of actuation, something to open or close them. Could be hydraulic, could be a physical cable (like on a non-drive-by-wire throttle), and of course it could be electrical. There are many, many ways to achieve electrical actuation, with a solenoid being one of the simplest (though the actual physics is rather interesting - electromagnetism). Hence, EGR Valve can be exclusive of a solenoid. An EGR solenoid, by name, would be the solenoid used to actuate the EGR valve.

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sarusa
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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby sarusa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:05 am

A solenoid irrespective of what it is or does is an electrically operated object. Full stop!!!!!

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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby Skrallex » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:31 pm

sarusa wrote:A solenoid irrespective of what it is or does is an electrically operated object. Full stop!!!!!


That's not really true though. A motor is an electrically operated object, too, but a solenoid is not a motor.

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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby sarusa » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:53 am

Skrallex wrote:
sarusa wrote:A solenoid irrespective of what it is or does is an electrically operated object. Full stop!!!!!


That's not really true though. A motor is an electrically operated object, too, but a solenoid is not a motor.


lol What I said is what the dictionary says, so argue with them if you wish! An electrical light bulb, is electrically operated
and it most certainly isn't a motor as are many other things
I have not stated that it was a motor. Make your own mind up on that. In the instance of what a solenoid is doing
for the EGR is pushing and pulling not rotating.using its ability to vary its response, according to the electrical current passed to it :?

Motor:- An apparatus that converts electrical into mechanic response which causes a part (the armature) of the
apparatus to revolve. Just 1 of 7 descriptions, in my dictionary. :)

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Re: EGR valve discussion

Postby Skrallex » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:44 pm

I think you missed my point. Your previous definition was obviously very broad. It's like saying a burger is something you put in your mouth - it sure is, but that doesn't mean you can describe what a burger is using that phrase. It doesn't differentiate it from any other food or non-food items, in the same way that "A solenoid ... is an electrically operated object" doesn't differentiate it from any other electrically operated objects :P that's all I was getting at, I wasn't saying you didn't understand what it is :)


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