ClubCJ - The CJ Lancer Club

Some mre info on fluids

Note that Motul obviously does not believe that a high viscosity is required for a DCT, and they specifically mention the Nissan GT-R's GR6 transmission in their data sheet:
http://www.opieoils....arbox-fluid.pdf

The Motul DCTF data sheet also lists essentially all of the car manufacturer's DCT fluid brands & model numbers.


PROPERTIES
Color Visual Amber
Density at 20°C (68°F) -----------ASTM1298 -----------0.845
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) -------ASTM D445 --------33.8 mm2/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) -----ASTM D445 ----------7.3 mm2/s
Viscosity Index ASTM ------------D2270 -----------------189
Flash Point --------------------------ASTM D92 ------------196°C / 385°F
Pour Point ---------------------------ASTM D97----------- -45°C / -49°F

Also the DCT fluid for all Ferrari's is Shell TF DCT-3, and it has similar viscosity to the Motul and Pentosin FFL-4 (same as BMW DCTF-1)

http://www.maionesrl...c/tf dct-f3.pdf


Property Unit Typical Value Method
Kinematic Viscosity at 100 °C mm2/s ---------------6.4 --------------------DIN 51 562-1
Kinematic Viscosity at 40 °C mm2/s ---------------29.5 --------------------DIN 51 562-1
Viscosity Index - -------------------------------------------175 ---------------------DIN ISO 2909
Dynamic Viscosity at -40 °C mPa s ---------------9500 --------------------ASTM D 2983
Density at 15 °C kg/m3 ---------------------------------------------849 ---------------------DIN 51757
Flash Point °C ----------------------------------------------215 ---------------------DIN EN ISO 2592
Pour Point °C----------------------------------------------- -48 ----------------------DIN ISO 3016


and Pentosin FFL-4

http://www.pentosin....ento_FFL4_2.pdf

Product Attributes
Appearance -----------------------------Amber & Clear
Density at 15°C ------------------------842 kg/m³
Density at 20°C ------------------------839 kg/m³
Kinematic Viscosity at 100°C ---------7 mm²/s
Kinematic Viscosity at 40°C -------34.7 mm²/s
Kinematic Viscosity at 20°C -------83.9 mm²/s
Viscosity Index -------------------------168
Dynamic Viscosity at -40°C-------- 7400 mPa*s
Pour Point------------------------------ -54°C/-65.2°F
Flash Point -----------------------------220°C/428°F

and Castrol Transmax Dual

http://www.pentosin....ento_FFL4_2.pdf


Product Attributes
Appearance -----------------------------Amber
Density at 15°C ------------------------837.6 kg/m³
Kinematic Viscosity at 100°C ---------7.2 mm²/s
Kinematic Viscosity at 40°C -------35.5 mm²/s
Viscosity Index -------------------------168
Pour Point------------------------------ -72°C
Flash Point -----------------------------220°C/428°F

http://www.dctfacts....A-Lubrizol.aspx

http://www.dctfacts....lubricants.aspx

Check out Motul from us with filter for around 300 Bucks.

I am also looking at Fuchs titan DCTF will let everyone now prices when i do

Hey guys, a bit of a small update - short on time lately.

I've just put up the FTIR traces for the Ford vs Diaqueen (repeat) and now for the Transmax vs Diaqueen. The difference this time is I've included the whole spectra, not just 2/3 of the range as before.

Diaqueen Vs Ford (Diaqueen in blue)


Yep pretty close.

Diaqueen vs Transmax (Diaqueen in blue)


Again, pretty bloody close. Don't worry too much about the peaks ~2300 - 2400 cm-1, thats just due to moisture in the air, and can change heaps depending on if you breathe on the instrument! There are a few small bumps between 1200 - 1000cm-1 for the Transmax, however I'm quite certain these are just due to a bit of isopropyl alcohol that I used to clean the crystal. The only difference I can see that sticks out is that the Ford and Castrol fluids seem to have some kind of weird transmittance at about 1600 - however I didn't see this last time in the tests so I'm going to assume its noise or an artifact.

So just backing up what I was saying before with some data. I'd be happy to say that according to THIS test, these things are essentially the same.

VISCOSITY

Ok so I tried to do this today. But I was just a bit too short with the Diaqueen, like 20ml Anyway I'm going to try it again next week with a different spindle and I might get a reading.

What I can tell you is that at ~70 deg C that the Ford and Diaqueen are quite close, roughly within 10% of each other. I got a very rough reading for the Diaqueen that was around the same as the others, but I'm not going to stand by that as the test wasn't quite right. Stay tuned, I'll have another crack next week

Thanks Nick!!

Hi, good stuff Nick ,So from what you saying we can take a guess and say that the ford stuff the diaqeen and the transmax are all pretty much the same Gazza

gman90 wrote:Hi, good stuff Nick ,So from what you saying we can take a guess and say that the ford stuff the diaqeen and the transmax are all pretty much the same Gazza

I'd say pretty similar! As I said there was a slight difference in viscosity @ 70 deg C - about 10% or so. It may be within the error range of the machine as it's reading quite low numbers. I'll try and repeat again next week and see what I get.

Update - well sorry guys, I tried to do the viscosity measurement again, but I just don't have enough Diaqueen to get an accurate reading. These are all quite low viscosities at 80 deg, so I have to use the largest spindle, but because of this I don't have enough fluid As I said last week, the viscosities look similar, but I can't get an accurate enough reading that I'm happy to post, so its going to be a case of use your own judgement.

thanks for the update nick

i cant get a hold of someone to do a trade quote for the transmax dual, i only could get access to trade at bursons and they dont deal with castrol anymore.

fair to say ford fluid is the best alternative if your willing to not use oem stuff and not to forget the ford transmission is made by the same company as mitsu so dont see why their fluid wouldnt do the same thing as the mitsu one.

http://www.willallracing.com.au/lubricants.htm#evotrans

Saw this just browsing online. $600 for ten litres so no cheaper than diaqeen really.

^ you want to stay away from that!!

Why Aamir, what have you heard about it??

I remember reading somewhere (EvoOz maybe) that some people have used it with not very good results and they recommended to stay away from it. I'll try to see if I can find the article.

Here is one thread from EvoX forums: http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/archiv ... -8960.html

But this is not the one I have read..the one I have read was the person who actually used the Willall fluid giving his feedback which was not good at all..I cant remember the specifics but I remember thinking that I would not use it.

Hope this helps!

Ok guys so I finally got a bit more info. This will probably be the last lot of testing I can do, as I've taken on a new position and won't be doing much in the lab anymore


Viscosity

Ok so this is how it happened. I tried to get viscosity at 80 deg C but found out I didn't have enough to use the large (more accurate) spindle. I put these 4 oils in an oven at 100 deg C over the weekend. I did notice some dis-colouration of the oils after this period. Have the oils degraded, or the colourant? No idea. My failed thermal analysis told me that the oils dont really break up until something like 150 deg, but thats pretty serious degradation at that temp.

Anyway all oils were heated for same amount of time, at same temp. I guess you could consider this a sort of test that shows how they hold up after a bit of abuse. All oils were tested at 21 deg C, so not operating temp, but again its comparative. Results are in centipoise, and I'd say +- 10%.

Diaqueen = 70
Ford = 70
Transmax = 75
HKS = 70

So what does this tell us? That the viscosity of each oil is basically the same. While the Transmax appears slightly higher, its probably within the margin of error.


Density

I only got the 3 oils suspected of being the same here.

Diaqueen = 8.30g/cm3
Ford = 8.34g/cm3
Transmax = 8.44g/cm3

There is only a couple of % difference here. The slightly higher density of the Transmax may explain the slightly higher viscosity.

So in summing up -

FTIR shows Diaqueen, Ford and Transmax appear to have an almost identical chemical makeup. Viscosity of each is very similar, as is density. I'll leave that up to everyone's own discretion what they do with the info.

excellent work, I have 20L of transmax waiting to be opened

I'll probably stick with Diaqueen for the first fluid change in the interest of keeping the warranty, but won't hesitate with Ford, Transmax or HKS when it's finished.

Excellent thread and research Nick.

I think it all goes to show that if your willing to not use the oem stuff then there are some other quality products on the market that are cheaper.