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SST Fluid comparison - Results

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BST50N
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SST Fluid comparison - Results

Postby BST50N » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:49 pm

Hey everyone, I decided to make this its own thread so people don't have to wade through 10+ pages to get to the good stuff. So here's the run down:

6 SST fluids tested
-Diaqueen
-HKS
-Motul
-LiquiMoly
-Martini
-Ford

Thanks to Beeble, Troupy, gman90, poe_sniper and Black_art for donating samples 8)

METHOD

All tests conducted in a temperature and humidity controlled lab @ 21-22 deg C and 50% RH.

FTIR was conducted using a Digilab spectrometer.

Viscosity was measured using a Brookfield DV-I LV viscometer using a #2 spindle @60 rpm

Thermal analysis - this isn't going to happen now. I've spent way too much time stuffing around trying to get a method working. I've run out of Nitrogen also. Problem is its impossible to put the exact same amount of fluid in each time (im talking <5mg here) and the amount of fluid relates to heat released on decomposition. So I can't get consistent readings. Just going to have to go with the other tests :(

Density - haven't done it yet. I'm going to do it using a 4 decimal balance and al volumetric flask.
Last edited by BST50N on Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby BST50N » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:18 pm

RESULTS - FTIR

Diaqueen vs Ford (Diaqueen in blue)

Image

Looks pretty bloody close to me!

Motul vs LiquiMoly (Motul in blue)

Image

Pretty similar!

Martini vs HKS (Martini in blue)

Image

Looks close to me.

Diaqueen vs HKS vs Motul (Diaqueen in blue)

Image

This one may be a bit complicated. As the software on the machine is archaic its impossible to label all the traces together. The Diaqueen is in Blue, the other two in red. I've highlighted where the peaks are significantly different. Motul and Liquimoly have a peak around 820nm, where the others don't at all. Motul has a big peak around 950nm, where HKS has a minor one, and Diaqueen doesn't have at all. Also notice the Diaqueen peaks are shifted from the others around 1180nm and 1740nm. The shift isn't huge, and indicates that the functional groups are the same, but are likely in different position on the molecular chains, or in some other arrangement in the molecule. What does this mean? I'm not sure, I'm not an expert in lubricants. I suspect it may be to do with some chain branching, possibly different end groups, and/or having the ether at different places along the molecular chain. How much will this affect the lubrication properties for a gearbox? No idea!

RESULTS - Viscosity

All measurements are in centipoise (mPa.s)

Diaqueen: 60 to 61
HKS: 63 to 64
Motul: 63 to 64
LiquiMoly: 70 to 71
Martini: 67 to 68
Ford: ? Not enough sample

Now these are relative numbers, so they might not match up with what's on data sheets. Its just to compare between them. What it does show is that Diaqueen, HKS and Motul are pretty similar in viscosity. Martini and LiquiMoly are about 10% higher (thicker).
Last edited by BST50N on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MAP EF2 turbo , DW65 fuel pump, ID1000 injectors, EvoX FMIC, UR dump pipe, 100 cell cat, CP-E Exhaust, aFe air filter...and mud flaps!

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Postby megatron » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:29 pm

so in conclusion, ford and diaqueen are the same fluid and martin and HKS are bloody close to it?

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Postby megatron » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:29 pm

top work and thanks for the effort

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Postby BST50N » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:37 pm

megatron wrote:so in conclusion, ford and diaqueen are the same fluid and martin and HKS are bloody close to it?


I'm not happy to say for certain that Diaqueen and Ford are the same. I need to confirm with some other tests. From the FTIR they look very similar, but I wouldn't base it purely on that alone.
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Postby El-Diablo » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:41 pm

I might be able to get hold of the spec on one of the fluids

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Postby BZC-45S » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:51 pm

A transmission workshop in Florida published a paper re: Getrag 6DCT450 and 6DCT470 gearboxes (Ford Powershift/Volvo MPS6 and Mitsubishi TC-SST in marketing nomenclature), the technical service information seems to suggests that the Ford, Volvo and Mitsubishi branded fluids are the same (and suitable for use in both transmissions). Since the generic name for transmission fluid happens to be BOT341, I'm guessing that Castrol BOT341 is the same as all those OEM branded fluids too.

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/ ... rag_TG.pdf
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tencents
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Postby tencents » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:33 pm

Looks like Ford is a good alternative!
- GST basemap
- AMS boostpill
- Works High flow drop in air filter
- Evo X BPV
- UR UICP
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Postby poe_sniper » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:49 pm

Is it possible to test the vicosity at different temperatures?
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Postby Beeble » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:41 pm

Yep everything I have been told is that Ford fluid = BOT = Mitsubishi fluid.

Viscosity - what would be SUPER useful would be viscosity at say 80C (operating temperature for SST). I realise this may be very difficult to do though.

In terms of composition - I *think* the BOT is semi synthetic. some of the aftermarket fluids are fully synthetic. arguably these will have differing properties under more extreme conditions and possibly hold up better in say a race scenario.
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Postby Beeble » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:42 pm

and I really wish we had some pentosin FFL-2 or SSP Gold etc to compare with.
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Postby R4LLI4RT » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:51 pm

i think its fair to say that if you use ford in ur gear box and something goes wrong then ur warranty should be ok unless the do a full examination of the fluid in the box which i highly doubt they will, and unless ur a track person then the ford one seems like a good choice.
how much is that per ltr?
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Postby megatron » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:29 am

around $35/L

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El-Diablo
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Postby El-Diablo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:37 am

4 litre cans of diaqueen on ebay at the moment for 140 buck a shot


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