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Supercharging your Lancer (basic info)

CJ Lancer Turbo Performance Modifications & Information.

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tjoz
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Supercharging your Lancer (basic info)

Postby tjoz » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:56 pm

As many people know, I am getting towards the end of my Lancer project with the last part being fitting the car with a supercharger. As quite a few people have asked me about this over the last couple years both here and over on other sites I will put up how others can go about supercharging the CJ Lancer.

First of all, there are two types of chargers that can go in our Lancers; screw type and centrifugal type chargers. A screw type charger mounts directly to the engine via both the intake manifold and the air intake. Screw type chargers can come in a couple different forms and from many different manufacturers (some are even twin screw). Centrifugal chargers look like turbo's but instead of mounting to the exhaust, they mount up to the front of the car. All chargers do use the belts and pulleys hence creating a parasitic effect. Just like turbo lag being the main downside in turbo applications, the parasitic effect of a charger is the main downside in charger applications. Parasitic effect is the charger requires power to make power, roughly 20% on average; the end gains are worth the trade off.

Other thing that should be mentioned are a few points below:

-You can supercharge the CJ Lancer
-Centrifugal chargers are the far easier option (can use an altered Magna/380 kit to supercharge the Lancer)
-Screw type chargers are more advanced installations and require more modifications
-All chargers run small amounts of boost
-Most important: there are NO supercharger kits available and no parts exist specifically for supercharging a CJ Lancer. Everything will be custom made
-Chargers add power in different ways to the car depending on which charger you go for
-Charger vs turbo nonsense is complete bullshit!! Neither unit is superior to the other. Both add power to the car but in different ways. Comparisons should not be made as they are not on equal playing fields

Now for those that do want to supercharge the Lancer, it wont be cheap. In general, you may be looking at around 5-7k for fitting a charger up to the Lancer; that involves the basics needed. This is just engine components only. Just like turbo installs, the cost can easily blow out over 10k. A centrifugal charger install would be much easier than other chargers.

Below are a list of parts that you will need to consider when charging the Lancer and their level of importance:

Must have parts

-Charger (either a screw type of centrifugal type)
-charger pulley
-charger drive extension
-Radiator and radiator fan upgrade (SC's run more heat, upgrade your radiator for a charged application. Mishimoto have an ideal package for CJ Lancers)
-Electronics (gauges primarily for boost and your temp)
-mounting hardware (this is all custom made)
-piping (both engine-charger, charger-intake, TB-charger and intake manifold-charger. All these dependent on charger)
-Computer upgrade (either stock ECU upgrade or a piggyback ECU option)
-Intake (can use stock but important to remember your intake feeds your charger which then feeds your engine. Make sure your intake is up for the job)
-intake manifold alteration (charger dependant)
-TB relocation/alterations (charger dependant)
-LSD
-Intercooler (for any applications over 5pounds of boost)

Overall cost of bare essentials is around AUD$5,500. This does not include install. Engine tuning is not included as cost for that is too varied to generalize.


Optional (engine related)

-intercooler (optional only if you run minimum amount of boost)
-forged engine internals (cylinder heads and pistons; all dependant on charger)
-upgraded camshafts
-sparkplug upgrades
-relocation of battery (either boot or swap location of stock intake box for battery)
-full exhaust upgrade
-Evo or equivalent bonnet which allows further ventilation
-Altered bonnet (dependent on charger*)
-clutch upgrade
-crank pulley upgrade
-TB upgrade
-intake manifold upgrade
-stroker kit

Average cost of optional engine components can head upwards of AUD$9000. The most expensive parts are forged internals (cylinder heads, rods, camshafts), intake manifold upgrade, stroker kit (most expensive but does include forged internals).

Optional (non engine related)

-upgraded brake package (slotted and dimpled rotors with new pads are esential, bigger brake kits are great but not entirely essential)
-new tyres (dependent on both charger output and optional LSD fitted)
-sway bars
-strut towers
-under body braces (both front and rear)
-lowered springs or coilovers (both are not necessary but if you want them you can go for them)

The optional non engine parts all depend on what you get. You could be looking at anything from 2k to upwards of 5k depending on what you go for.

*With the bonnet, depending on which charger you get you may need to alter your bonnet to be able to house a charger. There will be more info on this later on.

---

Just like a turbo install, there is no set price range to how much charging your Lancer is going to cost so that is why only generalized prices have been put in. Over the coming months this will be updated with info along the way and final results of how my charger project will go.
Last edited by tjoz on Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Envoke
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Postby Envoke » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:17 pm

This will either be a mess or a masterpiece, props to you for taking such a plunge. I surely cannot wait to see and hear the rumble once it's finished.

All the best, this will be one fast and super light lancer
Red goes faster. MUCH faster.

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vlad_the_impaler
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Postby vlad_the_impaler » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:01 pm

I'm highly sceptical about this whole project... don't think that CJ Lancer is the right choice for that mainly because of it's engine characteristics - positon, structure etc... and it's FWD car after all!

BUT ANYWAY it will be very interesting to see final result... best of luck mate, hope all your endeavours will be rewarded

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Postby Dire » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:35 am

Not to speak on Tim's behalf, but Vlad I believe the whole point of Tim doing things like this is to take a car and turn it into something bordering on ridiculous and being unique and, lets say incredible.

If this project works his car will truly be something to be admired and feared.

I think the point is not to create the best car possible for the least money possible (if it was then of course there would be better cars to use, or even just forgetting about mods altogether and straight-up buying a sports car), but to create something unique and highly-capable. The end result will be extremely impressive and, despite not necessarily being as good as it could be (maybe turbo-ing the car would be a 'better' option or a cheaper option? Honestly I don't know) it will be extremely respectable, as hes not only being ambitious, but individual, and as far as I know, fairly innovative (its not like projects like this haven't been done before, but theres hardly a handbook on supercharging a CJ).

Basically, this isn't a project for the everyday 'bang for your buck' type person, but for the passionate and brave person so-to-speak.

Now I'm sounding like a fanboy :P

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Postby Itachi » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:55 am

vlad_the_impaler wrote:I'm highly sceptical about this whole project... don't think that CJ Lancer is the right choice for that mainly because of it's engine characteristics - positon, structure etc... and it's FWD car after all!

BUT ANYWAY it will be very interesting to see final result... best of luck mate, hope all your endeavours will be rewarded


Again, not wanting to speak for Tim, but I have read through his build thread and seen all the nay sayers and through it all he has (at least this is the way I see it) had one main aim: To be different.

This can be broken into two parts, the first being the obvious, visual difference and uniqueness of his car.

The second being the thing I like the most, showing that there are other ways of making a car fast than just turbo and AWD, this is why I bolded the FWD comment Vlad, it is that attitude that Tim is trying to overcome.

As Jake said, Tim hasn't gone for the "best" option, and hasn't gone for the "easiest" option, he is just doing something different.

Tim, I hope it turns out to be an epic beast and silence all the 'haters' :P

Thanks for the info on supercharging aswell, it will be a great post to either encourage (they have a 'plan' so to speak) or discourage (like me, too much work and $$ :() people from doing it.

WA is all for it Tim :D
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Postby tjoz » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:26 am

vlad_the_impaler wrote:I'm highly sceptical about this whole project... don't think that CJ Lancer is the right choice for that mainly because of it's engine characteristics - positon, structure etc... and it's FWD car after all!

BUT ANYWAY it will be very interesting to see final result... best of luck mate, hope all your endeavours will be rewarded


Actually you couldnt be further from the truth. CJ Lancer IS charger friendly. Some of the doubts you have expressed are actual strengths in charging the CJ Lancer.

Engine layout is charger friendly. On the West side of the engine it will be an effort to introduce the charger pulley but not impossible. The thing that works in favor of charging CJ Lancers is location of both intake manifold and the throttle body; all in which are in front of the engine. With many chargers, you need to be as close to the throttle body as possible and the intake manifold. If not you will need to alter/relocate your throttle body which will give a negative response. A centrifugal charger however once you relocate your battery you got a lot of room for it.

As for FWD, the format has come a long long way in the last decade. The format is highly advanced compared to what it use to be. There is no reason to be against the format. Ive said it once before in another thread; people here are quick to bash on the FWD format yet majority own a FWD car; including those that bash the format... Why did you buy one for??

VW, Audi and many other European and Japanese makers have been using forced induction (both turbo and SC, sometimes both) in there cars and the results speak for themselves especially with VW.

It is a common misconception to base that the Lancer cant be supercharged as people see the RA/Evo have turbo and instantly think 'these cars can only be turbo'ed'. Its a naive misconception as you can put both turbo and SC on anything.

The easiest option and cheapest IS a centrifugal charger. Twin screw (the one Im going for) and turbo are more expensive.

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Postby Nuliaj » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:11 am

tjoz wrote:As for FWD, the format has come a long long way in the last decade. The format is highly advanced compared to what it use to be. There is no reason to be against the format. Ive said it once before in another thread; people here are quick to bash on the FWD format yet majority own a FWD car; including those that bash the format... Why did you buy one for??

I would hazard to say that most people bought their Lancers for the primary reason that manufacturers make FWD cars - they are quite cheap, provide good value and are highly practical. They also realise that the FF platform is not optimal for pure driving satisfaction (compare it with a cheap MX5). For these reason alone most people won't understand the point of modding a base lancer with the relatively extreme goal of forced induction. For an extra $10 to 20k (depending on the model you have) people who are even remotely interested in more than baseline performance would consider a Ralliart with factory support and call it a day. And yes while FF has come a long way, I have driven some high powered (compared with NA Lancers) FF cars like the DC2/5 Type Rs and MPS3, and while they can go quite fast in a straight line, it always seemed kinda pointless as you could never really utilise all that extra grunt in the lower gears for fear of torque steer. And deep down in the back of my mind, I always knew it could have been better without all the understeer.

tjoz wrote:VW, Audi and many other European and Japanese makers have been using forced induction (both turbo and SC, sometimes both) in there cars and the results speak for themselves especially with VW.

Definately. However one of the benefits of forced induction for cars like the VWs and Audis, especially in this day and age, is the improvements to fuel economy. Manufacturers no longer have to provide big stonking V8s or V6s to compete with other cars in their price range or class. And in the Golf Polo's case, it means you can have an even smaller 4 cylinder and still provide very good driveability. I would imagine though that this isn't the reason you're doing it.

tjoz wrote:It is a common misconception to base that the Lancer cant be supercharged as people see the RA/Evo have turbo and instantly think 'these cars can only be turbo'ed'. Its a naive misconception as you can put both turbo and SC on anything.

I don't think it's a misconception. If the Granturismo series has taught me anything, it's that you can use force induction on almost anything :P. All it is is more pushing in more air and adding more fuel, which is not a hard concept to understand (yes I know I'm over simplifying things). And while I applaud you for wanting to be different, I would guess most people are just asking the obvious question...is it worth it? Only you can answer that, so why worry so much about what others think?

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Postby tjoz » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:52 pm

I dont worry what other people say, I do whatever I want and not what other people tell me I should be doing. Its not about the negative aspects of people but its more on the discouragement that gets thrown around. Not just related to this but to most other areas of CJ modding; NA owners cop it and RA owners get it thrown their way too. Why mod your Lancer, its an ES/VRX you should have brought an RA. Why mod your RA why didnt you just buy an Evo. Evo owners are probably not immune to it either. It is something that gets thrown around ALOT.

If people want to mod their cars then let them. Its their car not yours. People are entitled to their opinion but before putting it out there you should really stop and think would you like someone to throw something like that at yourself?? Its not something directly aimed at CCJ but it is a big behavior problem across countless communities; people simply just do not know how to interact with others especially in online capacities.

---

Back to charger stuff as this is the whole point of this thread. If people are going to put out doubt and highlight why like Vlad did with his concerns and I can provide an answer to it that changes ones understanding of the subject then I will clear up as much as I can.

However my Lancer is not the only charged CJ Lancer. It is currently the only known NA FWD charged Lancer in development but there is an Evo out in Japan that is twin charged. It has both turbo and a supercharger (it has a centrifugal type charger). It puts out around 400+hp. The twin charged Evo is also a one off; no other example of it. Im pretty sure its the JUN Project Evo. Its a yellow/green coloured Evo. Ive only seen it once and it was in a magazine a couple years ago. My Lancer at this point in time be the only NA CJ Lancer with supercharger that I am aware of.

I would like this thread kept relating only to supercharging a Lancer. Only the supercharger part of my car will be brought into this. All other aspects of my car and any other crap are not for discussion in this thread. This is just for opening people up to the prospect of supercharging a CJ Lancer.

As there are two chargers that can go into a CJ Lancer I will discuss each one and what they do shortly. Most people do not know that there is more than one type of charger.

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Postby Dire » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:03 pm

I think people are still missing the point that this isn't a bang-for-your-buck type project like most people would do.

Keep up the good work Tim. :)

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Postby El-Diablo » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:55 pm

Hi Tim good to see someone pushing the envelope and doing something unique.

There are many paths to performance and there is no one right way.

Please consider the following must have engine additions.

I'm not overly familiar with the NA lancer but am assuming its multipoint Fuel Injection not throttle body, if so you may need to consider the following.

Larger injectors.
High volume Fuel rail
High volume fuel pump and I would suggest a surge tank.

Is the car manual? if so an upgraded clutch would be a good idea.

Harrop and Sprintex do complete installations are you having the work done in one place or doing some yourself?

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Postby bd-850 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:10 pm

Why do up a Holden, Why do up a Ford, Why do up any car?

BECAUSE YOU CAN.

here is a off teh shelf kit for a 1.8L Lancer http://www.raptorsc.com.au/kits.php?id=24 so you can supercharge/Turbo ANY car. Yes it costs lots of money to do it, but look at all show cars, (IMO) those cars are POINTLESS, you would be too affraid to drive it anywhere. but still good on them.

Top Points for Tim for thinking out of the square.

But Tim isnt looking for approval from other members, i guess Tim is trying to help out other members that might have thought about it, but thought it would be too hard or impossible.

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Postby jolly_tas » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:13 pm

Keep up with the development Tim and hopefully one day soon this will no longer talk but true to life. Supercharging these days is way under utilised in favour of turbos but they provide a better source of lower rpm torque than high end power. The other advantage is by changing drive pulley ratios you can change the characteristics of it.

Keep on with the dream and create something unique in the Lancer world. :)
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Postby Mitch » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:18 pm

hey tim i apologise for what i am saying but when do you finish on your p plates mate i am not trying to be an pain in the arse or anything just want you to keep your p plates in mind with these kind of engine performance mods actually go against your p plates and if you do get pulled over by the police on a RBT or anything and if they want to inspect your car mate just want you to be aware mate but if you will be off your p plates by the time you do this mate then that will be fine dont get me wrong this Mod will make your car a one awesome and unique sounding car i do look forward to seeing how it turns out

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Postby MattyvR » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:44 pm

Mitch wrote:hey tim i apologise for what i am saying but when do you finish on your p plates mate i am not trying to be an pain in the arse or anything just want you to keep your p plates in mind with these kind of engine performance mods actually go against your p plates and if you do get pulled over by the police on a RBT or anything and if they want to inspect your car mate just want you to be aware mate but if you will be off your p plates by the time you do this mate then that will be fine dont get me wrong this Mod will make your car a one awesome and unique sounding car i do look forward to seeing how it turns out

You already asked this, I think he would of already thought about it...


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